discussion Another Assault Rifle Shooting LAX

[DkRk]

Socio-economic and healthcare factors are the major issues at play, in addition to an increasingly scary culture of hyper-individualism that is becoming pervasive in American society.

This is why I'm quite miffed when people say our country needs to make large cuts to health/welfare and the overall social security net. It's these things that allow us to seek help when we're mentally sick or have hit hard times. They cite specific, minute examples of waste and largesse but we merely need to point to our southern neighbour to show what happens when the helpless 'have-nots' have nowhere to turn.

I'm not a fan of guns and tend to like Canada's 'gun situation' as it is. But if people are well-educated, adhering to rules and proper licensing, then I don't see an issue with ownership. I have a number of friends in our military and they're responsible, smart people who like to hit the range. Far be it from me to stop them.

 

[Lamb]

Ah gotcha. Ok, not a problem at least you are trying outside your comfort zone and trying to use logic instead of emotions. Good for you. My last comment was pure snark and uncalled for. I am sorry if you took it personally.

Still snarky as I can see, but I could care less.

Ok. Here it is in simple terms. "One of the best deterrents to firearm violence is the presence of other firearms." Do you see "full auto rifle" anywhere in that sentence? No? Maybe because that was not what was said nor intended?

Sure like to cherry pick and leave pieces behind.

This was an argument and like any rational, logic based argument it was then then backed up by a real world example - in this case Switzerland.

While leaving out many other metrics that probably have more impact on the situation. The only argument that has been made using Switzerland is this : Swiss have guns and Switzerland have lowest crime rate in the west as in Switzerland have lowest crime rate because Swiss have guns. Correlation =/= causation. There's isn't even a correlation between crime and guns; having more guns doesn't reduce or augment crime just as having less gun doesn't reduce or augment crime. The argument isn't based on anything here. Any stats saying otherwise (be it for the pro or anti gun) is probably just some bullshit paid for by lobbies.

A fully automatic rifle is not needed to prove the idea behind the argument - nor does counter examples of no full automatics disprove the argument. it just shows the example to be flawed.

It just shows that the argument cannot be proven either. Cherry-picking stats to support an argument doesn't prove anything.

A concealed handgun is a much better tool to have in the middle of a crime than an open carried rifle. Why...because you are less likely to be the first shot and thus will be alive to shoot back. In close quarters it also easier to get a pistol into action than a rifle. In a mass shooting rampage it has been shown that any potential lethal resistance stops the conflict and the suspect either is killed or flees. When there is no weapon present...it continues until a firearm shows up or live enough bodies are piled on to the suspect to subdue him.

Nothing to do with the argument at hand.

'We' are not the ones trying to simplify a complex issue. 'You' are. 'You' want to make the tool used the problem. You want to make it black and white and make the solution as simple as banning the tool used. If that is not what you are saying than I still don't get your argument. Please illuminate me I am genuinely interested.

Dat projection.

See, I'm not even arguing against or for the idea of guns right now, just pointing that the way you guys are arguing is ridiculous.

Feels like playing chess with pigeons.

 

[YukonTrooper]

While leaving out many other metrics that probably have more impact on the situation. The only argument that has been made using Switzerland is this : Swiss have guns and Switzerland have lowest crime rate in the west as inSwitzerland have lowest crime rate because Swiss have guns.

I didn't argue Switzerland has lower crime because they have more guns. In fact, I think that's one of the most false arguments made by certain firearm enthusiast circles. I was just pointing out the fact that high gun ownership isn't a driving factor in excessive gun related deaths. Besides, in Switzerland, the gun is enshrined and viewed as a symbol of national defense. The Swiss do not view the gun as a means of personal protection or deterrent against crime like Americans do.

Finland is another good example, as they rank fourth in gun ownership per capita in the world, yet they have a comparatively low percent homicide by firearm rate. Ditto for Norway, the paragon of peace in the world, ranked at 11th in gun ownership per capita.

 

[Soultribunal]

Sadly few posts about those effected by the event...versus once again the circular argument on firearms.
Good to see the 'blinders' on for both parties on this. Forget the effect , peg the cause and be dammed with what actually happened.
Be it a gun, knife, bomb, derailment, or something else...lives were changed/lost/altered and harmed.

Pay respect to that, and that alone.

It so saddening to see a thread like this, once again turned into what it has become.

-ST