discussion Vote results in: British Colombia rejects HST [Globe and Mail]

[JayDeeHobbit]

I love it. Governance by referenda instead of back room deals.
I really hope a secure electronic system is put in place that will make a referendum a common occurance.
Some issues, like defence perhaps, would be exempt from public input but let's see more and more policy put to the test by the people rather than politicians.
This should be bread and butter for a conservative so I hope Harper let's the blue side show through and starts the ball rolling on making it more common.

 

[chrisk]

On some levels I like direct democracy, but sometimes the masses can get whipped up in a frenzy and do stupid things. There would have to be lots of safeguards in place to protect human rights.

Would be interesting if there were enough signatures to have yet another referendum, to get the HST back lol.

 

[Squeetard]

His statement is quite valid. The unfortunate result of the referendum backs it up, too.

His statement is completely invalid and untenable. By way of common sense, morality, ethics or law.

And what unfortunate result of the referendum, do tell? The only result I'll ever see is more money in my pocket.

 

[Nodscene]

This is excellent news. Efff you government. Anyone who thinks the HST was anything but a way to get more money out of the middle class pocket has their head up their ass.

And congrats to Eldonko for one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read on the internet.

I don't know, I think it's a pretty close race between Eldonko and Dwayne at this point.

 

[chrisk]

Looks like the Ontario govt is spinning the referendum as good for Ontario:

GOOD NEWS FOR ONTARIO

The defeat of the HST in British Columbia is actually positive news for Ontario in a sense because the tax is good for businesses that recover sales tax payments on products they buy, said provincial Finance Minister Dwight Duncan.

“That will lead to more instability in their economy because now Ontario has is a much more attractive place for employers to invest,” he told the Star.

With a provincial election approaching in Ontario on Oct. 6, Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak and the New Democrats say it will be an unofficial “referendum” on the HST brought in by Premier Dalton McGuinty just more than a year ago.

But neither opposition party is promising to scrap the HST, only the 8 per cent provincial portion of it on home heating fuel and electricity bills, with the NDP also gradually trimming some HST from gasoline.

Canada News: British Columbians reject HST in referendum - thestar.com

Not sure if is a huge difference and of course this is most likely spin, but the fact that none of the parties in Ontario will get rid of the tax in the next election is interesting.

And for those who think that this will result in lots of extra savings, consider this from the National Post:

The original PST taxed every stage of the production process. If a business needed parts and equipment to make a product, it would have to pay tax on each item, and then charge a tax on the final product. In contrast, the HST only applies to finished products. This removes the disincentive for businesses to invest in the province and ensures that the same tax is not applied to a product multiple times. The HST should, therefore, boost investment and reduce the cost of doing business. This is why the tax is supported by the Fraser Institute and the Canadian Taxpayers Federation — two organizations that are consistently against any tax increases — and supported by 45% of the electorate as well. That a large plurality of voters would vote to keep the tax despite its ugly birth convincingly argues that, handled correctly, the HST could have been adopted with relative ease.

National Post editorial board: Lessons from B.C.’s HST debacle | Full Comment | National Post

So while a part of me likes this referendum because it might give politicians cause to think how they present a policy like this, I doubt the HST removal is a good move for BC.

As for myself, don't really care as it does not affect me much, unless I can buy stuff from NCIX at 7% tax (but I doubt it with their warehouses in Ontario now).

 

[Dwayne]

I don't know, I think it's a pretty close race between Eldonko and Dwayne at this point.

When you take two seconds to inform yourself get back to me.

HST in British Columbia and Ontario gets support from top Canadian economists - Personal finance - The Guardian

Fraser Institute Economists Hopeful BC Will Keep the HST; Available for Comment Following Referendum Results | Reuters

Econ 101 in BC: The HST referendum *|* Yukon News

If people would have taken a little time to get some information then they may have voted with their heads and not their hearts.

 

[DkRk]

His statement is completely invalid and untenable. By way of common sense, morality, ethics or law.

Average people should not be making decisions about the fiscal direction of their province. Referendum's over-simplify, and that inherent simplification often leads to terrible consequences. California's 'Proposition 13' is perhaps the best example; severe budgetary constraints, leading to major cuts in infrastructure, schooling, and the civil service, all because the population couldn't see past their nose.

We have a representative democracy that allows members of the legislature to spend time to make decisions that are thoughtful, and pragmatic. They are given resources that an average person cannot often access, or even use.

Referendums also tend to favor interest, and lobby groups. The Fight HST campaign was not afraid to lie, or stretch the truth. Joe Average does not fact-check; he has no time. But an MP/MLA usually does. Had this been kept in parliament, the debate would have been far less heated, and not to mention more intelligent.

I did not agree with how Campbell brought in the tax. But it was one of those rare cases where the government actually knew what was good for us.

And what unfortunate result of the referendum, do tell? The only result I'll ever see is more money in my pocket.

Until your employer, or your purchasers decide to move to Alberta because us wacky left-coaster's can't seem to stick to a tax regime.

Business in BC, and Vancouver specifically, pays an inordinate amount of tax. I'm in the business of helping to create wealth. While the HST does not impact my business activities too much, it certainly benefited many other small business operations. In fact, 'we' even took a hit (postponement of 0% small business tax rate) so everyone else could have a 10% HST rate. Also, the 10% HST would have raised corporate taxes from 10% to 12%. So the Zalm who said the HST would favour 'big, fat-cat business,' was just lying through his teeth; as usual.

Will I see more money in my pocket? Maybe in the short term. But down the line, I expect to see less, as business once again begins to retreat from BC.

 

[chrisk]

I doubt businesses will flock out of BC because of this. Mostly looks like egg on the face on BC altogether, and the BC Liberals in particular. New businesses might think twice, but its really hard to tell.

I'm loving the HST here in Ontario. At work (public sector), I can claim 13% refunds now on my purchases at work, instead of the 5%. This has basically led to me having my budget increased by about 15-16k, which I spent on tonnes of computer upgrades on my network. Same for my colleagues in this area.

 

[Perineum]

HST for me just means I pay more. Not one price for anything I buy has dropped. But now I pay higher taxes on a lot of stuff I never did before.

Things that were tax exempt now are not.

HST didn't give me a raise at work.

It did absolutely nothing for me except hit my pocketbook in new wonderful ways.

 

[Borg]

I've criticized people from BC on here before but I think they made a smart move.

I don't have the link on me but I can get it if people care. The report was that the people who vote against the HST understood the referendum question better. Interpret that how you wish.

I think the HST was just a cash grab. You'll get people who spin it so that it is somehow better for businesses but like someone said here in another post, that the Gov't claimed it was a revenue-neutral tax but now there's revenue loss?!? WTH?!? So, let's just assume that the Gov't or some experts/economists claimed it was revenue-neutral.... so, the Government decided to have a referendum that could swing it so that this is reversed?!?

Why even go to the trouble of implementing it in the first place if it's revenue-neutral?!?

And you don't want the public to have a say?!? You don't want Direct Democracy of any form? Yeah, it's much better when Government shoves legislation down your throat without any say. Also, this often happens when an election is years away.

Nah, you need to go by what you know:
1) Gov't will lie
2) Gov't will increase your taxes (eventually)

I think the people of BC made the right choice but make no mistake, the Gov't will look at the next option to raise taxes. Enjoy any benefits you get while you can.

P.S. Any benefits by the HST is just spin. The Gov't has been spending in every province in this 'creation' of jobs. I read of complaints about the train deal being reversed and stuff like that. That has nothing to do with the HST. These Government projects (and artificial job creation) will dry up and you'll have a massive debt. People sure are dumb falling for this crap. It's unbelievable to me.... I shake my head.