Toronto Maple Leafs...
- Thread starter 3.0charlie
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No hate here at all, simply stating that we know how you feel!! Although it WAS only the 1st round, certainly killer devestating when it's Game 7 of the Finals ;(
And don't kid yourselves, most if us Canucks fans DO know we'll be in a "re-building" phase for at least 4 yrs.
Anyhow, congrats to the Leafs on a great Series, tough way to lose the last game that's for sure!!!
And don't kid yourselves, most if us Canucks fans DO know we'll be in a "re-building" phase for at least 4 yrs.
Anyhow, congrats to the Leafs on a great Series, tough way to lose the last game that's for sure!!!
As an immigrant to the 'Centre of the Universe', some observations I have made that has influenced my opinion of Leafs Nation:
1. Its great to put flags on your car, wear face paint, get together at pubs, etc. Part of the fun of being a fan.
2. Its great to say 'our team is great, the other team is good, but I think we can beat them if x, y, and z take place'. Shows respect for your opponent, while recognizing what needs to be done to win.
3. Its not great to say 'team x sucks, we should beat them in 4 games, 5 maybe, etc'. Shows a lack of respect for the opponent.
4. Its not great to look for scapegoats after every loss, on and off the ice. This tends to feed into quick fixes, as if just fixing one or two parts will lead to wins. Sometimes there is no quick fix, and what seems to be a blunder could be the result of too high expectations.
I tend to think that #3 and #4 happen in Leaf Nation too often, for too many people.
As a Habs fan, I am 'supposed' to dislike the Leafs. But all things equal, I could bring myself to cheer them on under the right circumstances. But too many people around here that I know, try to pump up the Leafs by trashing opponents, and then they turn on their own players very quickly. I have noticed the same with the Jays, a team I love.
For those Leafs fans that have a healthy respect for other teams, but long for some success for your team, I feel truly sorry for you...your team went further than thought, and really could have went further if not for a collective team brain-fart. They will be in the playoffs next year if the young guys continue to develop. To those Leafs fans who were being idiots when the team has a little bit of success, including until approx 10mins into the 3rd period, you got what comes to ya.
1. Its great to put flags on your car, wear face paint, get together at pubs, etc. Part of the fun of being a fan.
2. Its great to say 'our team is great, the other team is good, but I think we can beat them if x, y, and z take place'. Shows respect for your opponent, while recognizing what needs to be done to win.
3. Its not great to say 'team x sucks, we should beat them in 4 games, 5 maybe, etc'. Shows a lack of respect for the opponent.
4. Its not great to look for scapegoats after every loss, on and off the ice. This tends to feed into quick fixes, as if just fixing one or two parts will lead to wins. Sometimes there is no quick fix, and what seems to be a blunder could be the result of too high expectations.
I tend to think that #3 and #4 happen in Leaf Nation too often, for too many people.
As a Habs fan, I am 'supposed' to dislike the Leafs. But all things equal, I could bring myself to cheer them on under the right circumstances. But too many people around here that I know, try to pump up the Leafs by trashing opponents, and then they turn on their own players very quickly. I have noticed the same with the Jays, a team I love.
For those Leafs fans that have a healthy respect for other teams, but long for some success for your team, I feel truly sorry for you...your team went further than thought, and really could have went further if not for a collective team brain-fart. They will be in the playoffs next year if the young guys continue to develop. To those Leafs fans who were being idiots when the team has a little bit of success, including until approx 10mins into the 3rd period, you got what comes to ya.
Well said! I have a couple of friends that are Leaf fans and each of them sit on opposite sides of the fence that you describe. Myself also being a Habs fan.... it drives me nuts when the guy sitting under #3 & 4 persistently has to bash the Habs, even when the Leafs aren't playing them. I usually just dish it back out and it totally pisses him off, which makes me wonder why he opens his lips in the first place.
I guess I just know different kinds of people. All - and I do mean all - of the Leafs fans I know have had forced upon them, in a most unceremonious fashion, a certain degree of humility. Nine years without so much as a chance to prove the epic playoff futility the team has exhibited for 45 years really should do that to a person. And if it doesn't, then you're going a bit too hard on the Paxil.
That said, let's not mistake some things for what they really are...
Now, in 2013, Jays fans have been promised something special - a promise of competitiveness that was augmented by a $50 million increase in payroll (over two years) and objective 3rd party endorsements. We have every right to expect our team to win more often than not this year. Clearly, you don't need me to tell you that this has not been happening. So what then? Do we patiently say, "It's okay to suck" while the division runs away from us? No - it's not okay to suck, and yes - it should be reasonable for us to expect this team to compete for a spot in the post-season. I know the season is long, yada yada yada, but herein lies the rub: the AL East is competitive. So thanks to their putrid April, the Jays will have to play .650 ball the rest of the way in order to reach the 95 wins generally needed to secure a wild card birth. In other words, unless they show a level of domination over the league that no team has matched since the 2001 Mariners, then the Jays are already cooked. So yeah, I am 100% on board with anger and blame-throwing as being a significantly more appropriate response to the 2013 Jays than apathy.
That said, let's not mistake some things for what they really are...
The Sens and the Habs suck. It is our duty, as Leafs fans, to believe this to our very core. We may not all be particularly enamored of Philly or - at times such as these - the Bruins, but at least we afford those teams as much respect as we feel they deserve when they deserve it. The Sens and Habs deserve no respect and never will.
Two words. Well, more accurately, one number and one word: 45 years. Say it with me, "45 years." If it's not okay to play the blame game after 45 years, then when is it? I believe it would be a significantly more egregious affront to say, "It's okay to suck for 45 years," than to say, "It's not okay to suck for 45 years, and we have to blame somebody for it."
Again - you must be hanging out with the wrong crowd. Baseball fans in Toronto have been nothing but patient with the Jays. How many times have we been made promises of competitiveness over the past 20 years? The Leafs get the press in this town, but here's a little-known fact that tends to get overshadowed by our back-to-back World Series victories in '92 and '93: the Jays currently have the third-longest post-season drought in the majors behind only the Royal and Pirates - two franchises not exactly known for their culture of success.
Now, in 2013, Jays fans have been promised something special - a promise of competitiveness that was augmented by a $50 million increase in payroll (over two years) and objective 3rd party endorsements. We have every right to expect our team to win more often than not this year. Clearly, you don't need me to tell you that this has not been happening. So what then? Do we patiently say, "It's okay to suck" while the division runs away from us? No - it's not okay to suck, and yes - it should be reasonable for us to expect this team to compete for a spot in the post-season. I know the season is long, yada yada yada, but herein lies the rub: the AL East is competitive. So thanks to their putrid April, the Jays will have to play .650 ball the rest of the way in order to reach the 95 wins generally needed to secure a wild card birth. In other words, unless they show a level of domination over the league that no team has matched since the 2001 Mariners, then the Jays are already cooked. So yeah, I am 100% on board with anger and blame-throwing as being a significantly more appropriate response to the 2013 Jays than apathy.
When I was growing up there were 6 teams. You loved your team and you didn't like the other teams. And if you were a Leafs fan you hated the Habs, and Habs fans hated the Leafs. Now, there are 30 teams and people are more "tolerant" and crap like that, but for me, there are 6 original teams and I love 1 and dislike the others and can hardly bring myself to cheer for others.
Every fan base has good fans and bad fans, but 6 original teams have fan bases that are old and set in their ways! And I know just as many Habs fans that make your #3 and 4 of the list, and Bruins fans, and Hawks fans, and Red Wings fans, etc. Can't say I have met many Rangers fans in Canada though... I am talking Canadian fans here. Lots of Windsor folks are Red Wings fans, insufferable with all those recent cups
That said, I grew up in Winnipeg and cheered for the Jets, until they moved. And I will cheer for the Jets again now that there is a team in Winnipeg, but make no mistake, when they play my Leafs they lose, and I don't like them at all. Same with the Canucks. I live on the best coast and I follow the team, I like them, but I love my Leafs. When the Canucks lost that game 7 I didn't feel sick like I did last night.
And yes, I think that had the Leafs played the Habs this year, it would have been a Leaf win... but I think the Leaf players will take the ashes of this defeat and learn from it, and pass it on to the other players that come into the room, and next year the run will be deeper. Beating the Habs this year would not have given them this crushing lesson.
Haha I figured that post would get a response.
And DT its not just the fans; when it looked like the Leafs would play the Habs, all the talk I heard on the various radio stations were not talking about what the leafs had to do to beat the Habs, but how many games it would take to beat the Habs. The opinions ranged from 4 straight, to maybe 5-6 games if Price pulled one out of his butt. I saw absolutely no reason for such optimism...could the Leafs had beaten the Habs? Absolutely. Could the Habs have beaten the Leafs? Absolutely (but I wonder how many Leafs fans would agree....)
Its having blinders on as to how competitive your team really is that I believe has helped lead the Leafs into the mess they are in. Enthusiasm = Good. Blind to reality = Bad. This attitude was something that struck me when I came here. I love the city for what it has to offer, but southern Ontario seems to be hooked on to the quick fix and get too high when things go moderately well. Its not just the folks I run with, but its all over the media too. It is possible to be patient, but demand excellence. It is possible to have high expectations, without getting into the need to bash the opponent and your own young players. This morning I was subjected to two radio stations trashing Reimer's performance. I thought he did well. Gotta blame someone I guess.
As for the Jays, the team spent a lot of money getting players from losing teams and then added them to a losing Jays team. Surprise that they are losing? Sure, its not that simple but I always thought that the GM will have to make adjustments to get the team promised. Yes, fans were promised it and they lapped it up (well, many of them). I go to baseball games 4-5 times every year and really enjoy it, except for the low attendance. I think next year the Jays will be much more competitive, after some more moves are made. Contenders? We will have to see.
And DT its not just the fans; when it looked like the Leafs would play the Habs, all the talk I heard on the various radio stations were not talking about what the leafs had to do to beat the Habs, but how many games it would take to beat the Habs. The opinions ranged from 4 straight, to maybe 5-6 games if Price pulled one out of his butt. I saw absolutely no reason for such optimism...could the Leafs had beaten the Habs? Absolutely. Could the Habs have beaten the Leafs? Absolutely (but I wonder how many Leafs fans would agree....)
Its having blinders on as to how competitive your team really is that I believe has helped lead the Leafs into the mess they are in. Enthusiasm = Good. Blind to reality = Bad. This attitude was something that struck me when I came here. I love the city for what it has to offer, but southern Ontario seems to be hooked on to the quick fix and get too high when things go moderately well. Its not just the folks I run with, but its all over the media too. It is possible to be patient, but demand excellence. It is possible to have high expectations, without getting into the need to bash the opponent and your own young players. This morning I was subjected to two radio stations trashing Reimer's performance. I thought he did well. Gotta blame someone I guess.
As for the Jays, the team spent a lot of money getting players from losing teams and then added them to a losing Jays team. Surprise that they are losing? Sure, its not that simple but I always thought that the GM will have to make adjustments to get the team promised. Yes, fans were promised it and they lapped it up (well, many of them). I go to baseball games 4-5 times every year and really enjoy it, except for the low attendance. I think next year the Jays will be much more competitive, after some more moves are made. Contenders? We will have to see.
Being from NCIX, you'll have to excuse my zealous use of quotes...
If you don't believe a handful of teenage girls wearing Leafs sweaters over their tutus would beat the Habs nine times out of 10, then you have no business being a Leafs fan. It's not about overestimating the quality of your team and underestimating the quality of the opponent. It's about knowing the Leafs are infinitely superior to the Habs by every conceivable measure regardless of what the actual data may indicate.
Forgive us for getting excited when things go moderately well, since "moderately well" is a great deal better than we've seen in a long time. Did you see the excitement in this city for the Grey Cup? Toronto has never cared as much about CFL football as it did this year. I wonder why?
Yes. Yes I am. Call me a hopeless romantic. The Jays have gotten off to one of their worst starts in team history. I was hoping for a bit more.
Haha this conversation needs a beer to keep it going smoothly. I love the 'data be damned' sentiment.
OT but yes, I too am surprised they have played this badly. This year is more about seeing how this team comes together, and then getting some additional parts for next year. The team has more talent to work with, its just a matter of finding out who will work with this team, and how to get the best out of the parts here. If next year goes this badly then I will have been proven wrong in my suspicions this winter.
As for TO, last night was a kick in the nuts for anyone following the team for sure. But there is something to work with here for the Leafs so its just a matter of giving the players some space to develop.
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