discussion Bicycle wheels

[Cannon Fodder]

I tightened the non drive side double nut, the drive side only has the one nut that holds the bearings, so I just tightened that one a bit.. should it be really tight?

Well, not being there to actually get a look at your wheel, I can't say FOR SURE how yours should be, but in my experience, there's generally at least two parts on each side of the axle(whether that's two nuts plus the bearing cup, or the bearing cup & one nut to tighten against that cup). You generally get the two items quite tight on one side, by using two wrenches, and turn them in opposite directions, in order to tighten one against the other, so the the bearing cup and the nut(s) can't move. You then get the bearing cup on the opposite side up against the bearings, and do the same with the two items on that side. The trick is(and this is almost as finicky as dealing with spokes), to get the bearing cup tightened in the correct spot so that there's no "play" in the wheel on the axle, but also loose enough so that the wheel spins freely..... this usually takes me several tries to get it into that "sweet spot". I hope that was clear enough..... it's just so your bearings are in the correct place and can't automatically tighten up while you're riding(MAYBE that's what happened before - the bearing cups & nuts MIGHT NOT have been properly tightened on one side, and riding may have tightened the cup up against the bearings).

Yeah, now biking will be alot easier thats for sure.. im gonna start to put on pounds haha!

Just take a route that's twice as long!

I think ill have to take that shifter apart and clean it as the screws dont seem to have much effect.

WD40 on the derailleur, and sometimes at certain spots along the cable(where it might be binding), or even inside the cable sheath(if you have any) might help too.

 

[danmitch1]

Well, not being there to actually get a look at your wheel, I can't say FOR SURE how yours should be, but in my experience, there's generally at least two parts on each side of the axle(whether that's two nuts plus the bearing cup, or the bearing cup & one nut to tighten against that cup). You generally get the two items quite tight on one side, by using two wrenches, and turn them in opposite directions, in order to tighten one against the other, so the the bearing cup and the nut(s) can't move. You then get the bearing cup on the opposite side up against the bearings, and do the same with the two items on that side. The trick is(and this is almost as finicky as dealing with spokes), to get the bearing cup tightened in the correct spot so that there's no "play" in the wheel on the axle, but also loose enough so that the wheel spins freely..... this usually takes me several tries to get it into that "sweet spot". I hope that was clear enough..... it's just so your bearings are in the correct place and can't automatically tighten up while you're riding(MAYBE that's what happened before - the bearing cups & nuts MIGHT NOT have been properly tightened on one side, and riding may have tightened the cup up against the bearings).



Just take a route that's twice as long!



WD40 on the derailleur, and sometimes at certain spots along the cable(where it might be binding), or even inside the cable sheath(if you have any) might help too.

Oh ok, I think thats pretty much what i did. Ill have to recheck it and see, but it seems only one side had the lock nut ( non drive). I bet the bearings being over tightened was part of the problem in conjunction with LOTS of grime.. Ill have to check on that more frequently.

Lol @ take a longer route.. true enough!

I think Ill try drenching the derailleur in WD40 before disassembling, with my luck I wont be able to put it back together and wont have a ride into work : P

EDIT: Just spun my back wheel, same issue again lol.. Ill have to re check the bolts.

 

[Cannon Fodder]

Oh ok, I think thats pretty much what i did. Ill have to recheck it and see, but it seems only one side had the lock nut ( non drive). I bet the bearings being over tightened was part of the problem in conjunction with LOTS of grime.. Ill have to check on that more frequently.

Uhm, are you saying that on the drive side there's ONLY the bearing cup up against the bearings? That is, if you have the cassette/cluster off the hub, and can look at the bearing/axle arrangement, there's NOTHING to tighten up against the bearing cup?

Lol @ take a longer route.. true enough!

I think Ill try drenching the derailleur in WD40 before disassembling, with my luck I wont be able to put it back together and wont have a ride into work : P

Sure you would..... you just wouldn't be able to change the gear on the front..... at least not without getting your hands extremely grimy!

EDIT: Just spun my back wheel, same issue again lol.. Ill have to re check the bolts.

Well, if that axle is as mentioned up in the two sentences(yours & mine) at the top of this reply, I'm wondering if you had the axle serviced at a shop in the past, or if you worked on it, and POSSIBLY it got put back together improperly? As previously mentioned, I'm sure there's LOTS of bike configs that I'm completely unaware of, but I can't imagine that the bearing cup on one side of an axle would be allowed to be loose, i.e. not tightened in place to keep it from moving. IF there's no lock nut of any kind on the drive side, if you were to take the wheel off the frame, you'd probably be able to easily turn the bearing cup looser or tighter, simply by hand, and THAT would in all likelihood be the problem.

Let me ask this - when putting that wheel in the frame, does it fit properly, or do you have to really tighten the QR lever to bring each side of the frame up against the ends of the axle? What I'm getting at, is if you have to do that, there's possibly a nut missing off the drive side. If, however it fits well, and there is no lock nut against the bearing cup on the drive side, I'm thinking that MAYBE one of the nuts on the other side belongs on the drive side. MAYBE it's supposed to be the bearing cup, then the spacer, and then 1 nut on the non drive side, and the bearing cup, and the other nut on the drive side.

Again, not being able to see the arrangement and the fit of everything, I can't really tell, but suffice it to say, there's no way that wheel should be tightening itself up simply by riding it.

 

[danmitch1]

Uhm, are you saying that on the drive side there's ONLY the bearing cup up against the bearings? That is, if you have the cassette/cluster off the hub, and can look at the bearing/axle arrangement, there's NOTHING to tighten up against the bearing cup?



Sure you would..... you just wouldn't be able to change the gear on the front..... at least not without getting your hands extremely grimy!



Well, if that axle is as mentioned up in the two sentences(yours & mine) at the top of this reply, I'm wondering if you had the axle serviced at a shop in the past, or if you worked on it, and POSSIBLY it got put back together improperly? As previously mentioned, I'm sure there's LOTS of bike configs that I'm completely unaware of, but I can't imagine that the bearing cup on one side of an axle would be allowed to be loose, i.e. not tightened in place to keep it from moving. IF there's no lock nut of any kind on the drive side, if you were to take the wheel off the frame, you'd probably be able to easily turn the bearing cup looser or tighter, simply by hand, and THAT would in all likelihood be the problem.

Let me ask this - when putting that wheel in the frame, does it fit properly, or do you have to really tighten the QR lever to bring each side of the frame up against the ends of the axle? What I'm getting at, is if you have to do that, there's possibly a nut missing off the drive side. If, however it fits well, and there is no lock nut against the bearing cup on the drive side, I'm thinking that MAYBE one of the nuts on the other side belongs on the drive side. MAYBE it's supposed to be the bearing cup, then the spacer, and then 1 nut on the non drive side, and the bearing cup, and the other nut on the drive side.

Again, not being able to see the arrangement and the fit of everything, I can't really tell, but suffice it to say, there's no way that wheel should be tightening itself up simply by riding it.

The wheel fits as expected, not too much space or anything and I dont have to over tighten the QR.
Id have to take a pic but it seems to me the drive side has only this

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...2ahUKEwiuoo-ShbbyAhVlrHIEHd3wC7UQuxd6BQgBEPQC

and the non drive side has another one of those, a spacer and then a lock nut.

 

[Cannon Fodder]

The wheel fits as expected, not too much space or anything and I dont have to over tighten the QR.
Id have to take a pic but it seems to me the drive side has only this

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...2ahUKEwiuoo-ShbbyAhVlrHIEHd3wC7UQuxd6BQgBEPQC

and the non drive side has another one of those, a spacer and then a lock nut.

Yeah, now that I've taken a 2nd look(or should I say 6th or 7th) at those pics you uploaded, that DOES appear to be what you've got. When looking a little closer, what I thought were two nuts, with a spacer in between, on the non-drive side, this time I noticed that the item closest to the bearings has only 2 flat sides for using a wrench, and is probably the bearing "cone", then a spacer, and THEN the six sided lock nut. Given the drive side APPEARS to have JUST the cone, that seems to be the problem, i.e. there should be a lock nut on there. Again, not seeing this in person, I can't say for sure, but I'd bet that if you get a lock nut on there, the problem SHOULD be solved.

 

[danmitch1]

Yeah, now that I've taken a 2nd look(or should I say 6th or 7th) at those pics you uploaded, that DOES appear to be what you've got. When looking a little closer, what I thought were two nuts, with a spacer in between, on the non-drive side, this time I noticed that the item closest to the bearings has only 2 flat sides for using a wrench, and is probably the bearing "cone", then a spacer, and THEN the six sided lock nut. Given the drive side APPEARS to have JUST the cone, that seems to be the problem, i.e. there should be a lock nut on there. Again, not seeing this in person, I can't say for sure, but I'd bet that if you get a lock nut on there, the problem SHOULD be solved.

The adventure continues.. I took off the wheel AGAIN last night, turns out that there was indeed a lock nut on both the drive and non-drive sides. The drive side locknut was so gunked up that it blended in with the bearing cone so much that you could barely see it lol.

Now what I noticed is that the lock nuts have a "knurled" side and a smooth side.
The drive side locknut (which I haven't touched since last night) had the knurled side facing outward towards the frame. So I turned it to face the bearing cone, and lined up everything adjusting both the drive and non-drive (which now I understand how tedious that is!) and held the bearing cone with one wrench and tightened down the lock nut on both sides assuring that there wasnt any play and that the bearing could move freely.

After I decided to google the knurled locknut and found conflicting information. Some say the knurl is supposed to face the frame and that the the smooth on smooth creates the lock while the rough side prevents movement within the frame. Some others say it doesnt really matter.. So I left it as it was.

Now, I know hands on that that was wrong! This morning on my way to work, the wheel tightened its self up so bad that I had to walk the rest of the way, thankfully only 5 minutes. I hope the Dollarama near my work has the right tools so I can fix it at lunch, otherwise i have a 45 min walk ahead of me after work...

EDIT: Good ol Dollarama! Got the thin wrench I needed and just reversed the locknuts to have the knurl point outwards. Wish me luck on my way home

 

[Cannon Fodder]

The adventure continues.. I took off the wheel AGAIN last night, turns out that there was indeed a lock nut on both the drive and non-drive sides. The drive side locknut was so gunked up that it blended in with the bearing cone so much that you could barely see it lol.

Now what I noticed is that the lock nuts have a "knurled" side and a smooth side.
The drive side locknut (which I haven't touched since last night) had the knurled side facing outward towards the frame. So I turned it to face the bearing cone, and lined up everything adjusting both the drive and non-drive (which now I understand how tedious that is!) and held the bearing cone with one wrench and tightened down the lock nut on both sides assuring that there wasnt any play and that the bearing could move freely.

And doing that SHOULD result in ZERO problem with the wheel tightening up as you ride.

After I decided to google the knurled locknut and found conflicting information. Some say the knurl is supposed to face the frame and that the the smooth on smooth creates the lock while the rough side prevents movement within the frame. Some others say it doesnt really matter.. So I left it as it was.

The part in bold makes good sense.....

Now, I know hands on that that was wrong! This morning on my way to work, the wheel tightened its self up so bad that I had to walk the rest of the way, thankfully only 5 minutes. I hope the Dollarama near my work has the right tools so I can fix it at lunch, otherwise i have a 45 min walk ahead of me after work...

EDIT: Good ol Dollarama! Got the thin wrench I needed and just reversed the locknuts to have the knurl point outwards.

Hopefully you got those lock nuts & bearing cones tightened up properly, because this wheel tightening thing SHOULD NOT happen once the bearings are all squared away.

Wish me luck on my way home

Ok..... GOOD LUCK!

 

[Cptn Vortex]

Amazon.ca

I had a copy of this when I was about 14 (back in 1999 lol, instructions are probably a bit different on todays bikes!) I read it cover to cover so many times, and there was nothing on a mountain bike I couldn't fix or tune. I'd say worth it if you are planning on doing more!

 

[danmitch1]

What a PITA! I Got home and my wheel hub was super loose.. Took it all apart and tightened it again last night. Got to work on it today and its not super loose like yesterday but its loose again..

Thanks for the suggested read Cptn Vortex ( we are close to the same age, I graduated high school in 99 and I think my bike is from that era lol )

 

[Sagath]

Blue locktite is my goto for finicky issues like that.